>> let me clarify something. there is a widespread assumption that the transitional council that we now see or some form of it will actually leave libya in some kind of transitional period of. are you saying that you do not think that is the case? or are you saying that they will but then the other leaders are going to emerge? >> they have to merge, first of all. they have people from beng hazi and misrata. then they will open up for other people. and there will be a new wave of leadership. and i do not believe that the

new libya will be led by these people. i think there is an older, maybe experienced, a generation of people that have moralists have done a good job. but i really believe that they will appear in the next month, two months. >> michele, can i have a word? they're at and a lot of unrealistic comment thursday that the transitional council was a hodgepodge. it has to become more of a hodgepodge. there a lot of different perspectives in it and it will be writing the rules, which is what the constitution is, disturbing powers among the institutions. that is what libya needs, as broad a transition as second

possibly have. there might be a piece of the islamist influence, but i definitely want them inside the tent, not outside. >> dimon wilson heredia atlantic council. -- here at the atlantic council. seeing what they have done as part of this operation is quite remarkable. some of the training of the rebel forces and the arms supply. if you could talk about of varying roles of other arab countries in the conflict in libya itself, and what the implications of that? morocco and jordan also joined the uae in qatar in becoming part of the nato council conducting the operation. interesting political decisions from morocco and jordan. the arab league's still staying

back in front of this. if you could play that out a little bit. and second, what is the impact of what is happening right now in libya on the arab spring more broadly? how does it play in syria and yemen, two countries in the midst of revolutions and revolt? and what the implications indonesia and egypt? they are going the -- they are undergoing the transition already. >> if any of the other panelist wanted japan, please do. we are seeing really confused, chaotic picture in the arab world right now as arab states try to cope with the amount of change. is more than the system can bair. i mentioned i thought in some ways libya was a unique case. gaddafi made a unique mistake 80 or so years ago by trying to

assassinate the king of south -- eight or so years ago by trying to assassinate the king of saudi arabia. they were eager to get rid of gaddafi. that has not been the saudi approach to other arab states in general. there were very unhappy to see president mubarak of egypt go. even in syria, the saudis, i think only reluctantly came around to more or less giving up on al assad. it was an important step and a step that pave the way for more vigorous u.s. and european positions on what needs to happen in syria.

we saw that most of the arab states did pull together in favor of change in libya. not all of them though. algeria stuck with gaddafi until close to the end. syria is very much preoccupied with its own problems and really cannot play this kind of all role. level not had a grudge against gaddafi and was eager to -- lebanon had a grudge against gaddafi and was eager to take that role. that does not reflect what the positions of arab states will be on changes going forward. libya was a unique case because it did not been made so many enemies over the years. syria -- i am certain that the

opposition forces are in syria and yemen are going to be very much encouraged by what happened in libya. because, as i said, there is more than one way to overturn our regime. i think there was a pattern emerging that whereas it could happen peacefully and quickly in egypt and tunisia, then it can just not work. the libyans have shown that with some help they were able to overcome the regime. that does not mean things are going to be easy going forward. libya does not look like a perfect scenario, but it does create another model.

already we are seeing things devolving a bit into what will be an armed conflict. it is not clear whether things will go that route in syria. but it is a possibility. it is a possibility in deed that the divisions of the syrian army will begin fighting each other. there is this fourth division that is close to come up -- close to the president's brother and is expected to remain largely loyal to him. we could see the syrian conflict, which has been going on for a long time and slowly spreading, becoming more divided, and i think that will raise questions about international military assistance of some kind.

i am sure the international community has no interest in fomenting an armed conflict in syria, but if we saw poorly- armed divisions of the army fighting with the protesters against a well-equipped elite division at citing -- siding with us, i think that would raise questions. if libya is seen as presenting a successful case of international military intervention, that is going to raise a question, you know, about syria and whether there should be some form of military assistance. i want to be clear. not at all in the present scenario. only in the scenario where the armed conflict develops inside syria. i think there are a lot of implications for the other rebellions in the arab world. and there are a number of countries, notably of urea -- algeria, where we have a model

of leadership that is somewhat similar to the models being overturned successively in a lot of other arab countries, and there are going to be questions about whether there is going to be spillover. to other panelists want to comment? daniel i think you -- >> i think the scenario you painted for syria is our real possibility and would be a horrible mistake. a horrible mistake for the protesters, for the international community, for everybody concerned. why do i say that? i do because the conditions for successful international military intervention simply do not exist with syria. there is not going to be enabling security council resolution. the russians will block it. there is no question in my mind about that at all. you have the potential in syria -- when the violence comes,

people go for protection to their own community, their own family. you have the potential for ethnic strife and in syria that would truly be catastrophic. if we are smart, we will be assisting over and over again -- insisting over and over again that syria has to keep on the non-alignment track. and think there is serious potential for success. but it may take time. >> i agree with you that this is a very unhappy scenario for syria. i did want to point out -- it might go that way. i am hearing from syria that is indeed a possibility. peter? >> this question also highlights

the role that turkey has played, which has been rather extraordinary given the overall evolution of turkish foreign policy, the role it has placed in -- played in libya. financing them quietly. as part of all broader role it has played in africa. i want to keep in mind this can be part of keeping syria going that direction. it is one thing to finance and assist our rebel movement across the mediterranean. it is another thing to have it on your doorstep. i think they will play a role in helping encourage the syrian opposition to maintain discipline, and despite provocations, to avoid making this type of armed conflict. >> i agree turks will want to do -- would not want to do that. they also have difficulty defining their own position.

with libya, at a certain point, they were initially supportive of gaddafi. with syria, with saudi foreign minister make a trip there and make several -- with the syrian foreign minister -- we saw the foreign minister make a trip there and make several last- ditch efforts. it was utterly rebuffed by the syrians. other questions? >> i wonder if anyone would like to speculate about why the success stories in the air of -- arab spring have all been in north africa? particularly there is not much evidence of a great deal of action between the three. -- interaction between the three. any comments? >> well, i do not believe there has been contagion, and some of the longest standing -- i am not -- some of along the

standing autocracies or in north dachshund -- north africa by accident. i am not particularly puzzled why it has happened. >> it is a factor of the -- i am sorry. is a factor of the communication between one country. there are right for that even the muslims did not see it at the time. >> perhaps also, there is a factor -- i cannot help but think about bahrain when you raise this question. there was this uprising that was put down, i think temporarily. i do not think we have seen the end of serious opposition in bahrain, but the countries in north africa are not next door to a large arab countries like saudi arabia that was willing to intervene in all kinds of ways,

including militarily, to put down these uprisings. other questions? >> thank you. >> can you speak up a little bit? >> just a question concerning the external influence, which was addressed before. i would like, if possible, to expand on the possible role of russia and china, in particular when it comes to economic interest. >> you know, i think we can expect the chinese to want some of the oil action. no doubt about it. this is of course to establish

sooner rather than later a level playing field for oil and gas from libya. so far as the russians are concerned, i have not seen the same kind of concern about libya from the russians that you see about syria. syria is something they are very serious about. in a very real sense, libya is just a gas competitor to russia.

hour that took place in ireland's lower house of parliament. >> ireland is perps unshockable when it comes to the abuse of children. but it has proved to be of a different order because for the first time in this country a report into child sexual abuse exposes the holy scene in a

sovereign democratic republic as little as three years ago, not three decades ago. the report excates the dysfunction, the disconnection, the elitism, the dominant culture of the vatican today. the rape and the torture of children were downplayed or managed to uphold instead the pry massy of the institution, s core, it's standing and its reputation. far from listening to evidence of humiliation and betrayal with said benedict ear of the heart, the vatican's was to process the calculating withering position and being the polar opposite of the humility and the compassion upon which the roman church was founded. the humility and the compassion

which at the very essence of its foundation and its preface, the behavior being in a case. nothing could be farther from the truth. the revelations are heartbreaking. it describes how many victims continue to live in the small towns and perishes in whi they were reared and in which they were abused. their abuser often stood in the area and still held in high regard by their families and their community. the abusers continue to go to family weddings and funerals. in one case the abuser even o officiated at the victim's own wedding. there was little that i or anyone else in this house could

comfort that victim and others. we do recognize the bravery and the courage of all of the victim who is told their stories to the commission. this take a long time for them to recover from the horrors unvered. it could take the victims a lifetime to pick up the pieces of their shattered existence if ever they do. a day of publication, the promise to newspapers about the report. the gravity of the action and the attitude of the holy scene and ireland's complete rejection upholds the same. the time it took to report to the vatican, th considered response soft the holy skeevepb. i believe that the irish people

including have many cat licks -- catholics have been dismayed to face up to what is required, what is deserved and the required confirmation from the vatican that they do accept and endorse anrequire a compliance by all church authorities here with the obligation to report all cases of suspected abuse to the state's thority in line with the children's first national guidance which allowed the force of law. radilism has rendered some of ireland's victims to address the murphy reports. this rumored report must be

devastating for good priests, others struggling to keep their sanity as they work hard to be the keepers of the church's goodness within their parishes, within their communities of the condition of the human heart. thankfully for them and for us this is not over. neither is the industrial school with a swish of a sue tain smothered conscious and humanity, it rules the irish catholic world. this is the republic of ireland 2011, the republic of laws of rights and responsibilities of proper civic order where the delinquency of a particular kind of morality will no longer be tolerated or ignored.

as a practicing catholic, i don't say any of this easily. growing up, many of us in here learned that we were part of a pilgrim church. today that church needs to be a pen tant church, a churctruly and deeply pentant of the sins that it denied in the name of god but for the good of the institution. when i had the two-hour legislation, those who have been abused might take some small comfort in knowing that they belong to a nation, to a democracy where humanity, power, rights and responsibilities are enshrined and enacted always -- always for their good where their law

as citizens of this country will always super seed canon law that is neither legit massy nor place in the affairs of this country. thiseport tells us a tale of a frankly brazen disregard for protecting children. if we do not respond swiftly and appropriately as a state, we will have to prepare ourselves for more reports like the. i agree with bishop martin that the church needs to public any other and all other reports like this as soon as possible. most noted that the commission is very positive about the work of the national board for safeguarding children, established by the church to oversee the operation by diocese and ligious orders. the commission notes that all church authorities were required to sign a contract with the national board agreeing to implement the

relevant standards and that those refusing to sign will be named in the board's annual report. progress has been in no small measure to the commitment of mystery and elliott and others. there is some comfort to be drawn from the people of cline and it is complimentary of the efforts made by the diocese in 2008 in training in vetting personnel and in the risk management of priests against whom allegations have been made. nevertheless, the behavior of bishop mcgee and callahan show how fragile even good standards and policies are to the weakness and the willful disregard of those who fail to give the right priority to safeguarding our children. if the vat began needs to get his house in order, so to does the state. the report of the commission is

rightly critical of the entire unsatisfactory position in which the last government allowed to persist over many years. the unseemingly bickering between the children and the h.a.c. over the statutory power to see abuse, the failure to enable the exchange of soft information as promised after the fern's inquireand the long period of confusion and disjointed responsibility for a child's protection within the h.a.c. as reported by the commission are simply not acceptable to me nor in a society which values children and their safety. for too long, ireland has neglected some of its children. just last week we saw a case of the torture of children within the family come before the courts. just two days ago, we were repulsed by the case of a registered sex offender and

school caretaker. children and young adults reduce the camcorder to human wreckage. raising questions and issues of serious import for state agencies. we are set to embark on a course of action to ensure the state is doing all itan to safeguard our children. we are bringing forward to pieces of legislation to make an offense relating to crimes against children. and secondly, at long last to allow for the exchange of soft information on abusers. i want to do all that i can to protect the say credit space as childhood and to restore its innocence especially our young teenagers. becae regardless of our current economic cry sick, the

children of this country are and always will be our most precious possessioof all. safeguarding their integrity and their innocence must be a national priority. i under took to create a cabinet mystery for children in youth affairs. the legislation children first proposes to give our childn maximum protection and security without intruding on the hectic magical business of being a child. cardinal ratzinger said standards appropriate to civil vote the work of a democracy cannot be purely and simply applied to the church. as the holy scene considers their response to the cline report, i want to make it clear that when it comes to the protection of the children of this state, the tan dards of

conduct which the church deems appropriate to itself cannot and will not be applied to the workings of democracy and civil society in this republic not purely or simply or otherwise because children have to be and will be put first. >> thank you. >> i propose to share my time with the deputy in ration to this. it's very appropriate that the motion before the house is signed by party group leaders because the only aeptable action to this report is a unity between us all to condemn the actions it exposes, support the victims and affirm our joint commitment to action. the report is very moving for many because i and others which have been affected by this abuse. they are strong communities with a great spirit. they have vibrant sports coves

and great facilities. the church has always been respected and valued by both people of faith and a wider community. the undeniable fact contained in this rert show a different picture of the catholic church. abusers were allowed to use their status as caretakers to carry out the most appalling crime and the church's leadership in the diocese show the call disregard for the safety and rights of the most vulnerable members of its flock. this was done not simply to avoid scandal. it went much farther and it allowed a willful refusal to accept basic moral and legal responsibilities. the abuse of children should never take place. but where it does simple humanity requires swift and resolute intervention. you do not need regulations to

understand this fundamental morality. however a significant framework of regulation and legal sanctions have been in place for a long time. no person within any organization be it public or private has any excuse for not knowing exactly what to do when there's even a general suspicion of child abuse. the intervention of church authorities in undermining child protection rules in recent years is nothing short of an outrage and a betrayal of those who look to them for moral leadership. when the evidence of their failures were exposed, the reaction of key authors have given little assurance that the scale and depth of the outrage were suffered by ordinary people. this is not something that can be dismissed be the secular elite.

most of the strongest views i've heard are coming from people who are great faith in the spiritual teachings of the church. in my meeting last year, i made it clear that the irish state expected the vatic's full corporation in the investigation into abuse in the diocese and in all other investigations. it's defensiveness and interest in the church rather than those of the children is unacceptable and will continue to cause great damage. i think we should acknowledge the standard of some church leaders. the chch will only retain a place of importance in our society if his colleagues follow him in his primessive -- impresve commitment of the figure of the church. the ryan report exposed in

great detail the systematic brutalization and exploitation children for many decades. it showed probably the darkest chapter in our history as an independent state. thousands of children expect their state to protect or nurture them or abuse in the most appalling ws within mostly surge controlled institutions. what this report has done is to show how the problem of abuse and institution is not just a consider of the past. it is not something anyone can be complacent about. the ryan report because of a group of survivors who many years into their adult lives were determine today get justice and support. i met many of them before and after i proposed the establishment of that commission of inquirey. i didn't want to bring a

partisanote but this is in relati of the last comment. but the survivors of the ibs tuitions of golden bridge had been refused access for the government and officials at that time for a number of years and it was only the documentary at the time that gave them any sort of access or profile in the public arena. but they'd beedenied any response from the state for many, many year before we established that commission. i admire their courage and their commitment and their continued commitment as integrity to many, many survivors. i also initiated the first inquirey -- inquiry. and george did an outstanding report after that. dublin and of course now cline. the significant of cline is of urse that many of the victims of the abuse outline in that

report how much younger and in many cases only benning to come to terms with the abuse which they have suffered. it is right to thank the commission for carrying out a difficult assignment with both sensitivity. i welcome the general measures which proposed for dealing in the outcome of the report. we should be thorough and fast. equally where there's a need for faher forensic investigations particularly in relation to other diese, they should be carried out. >> just over eight minutes there. >> i want to endorse the motion and the words of the prime minister. the motion and the report are sending a very strong message of support to those who suffered abuse. however, in this occasion there's an even stronger message offer condemnation to

those who perpetrated the abuse. and the sfroest message should be directed at those who covered up the abuse and covered up the management of it. those in the vatican, those in cline and those elsewhere. those in full knowledge of the horrendous impact arising from previous cases and disclosures and happening within their own organization are in their own area, they pro seeded with contempt for survivors and victims, contempt for their own church for those who are member of their church. contempt on the cases of the vatican. and ultimately a shared contempt for the truth. contempt for the foundation is in one name and in one name only, the protection of friends, colleague, a protection given an offer at any cost, the cost of victims and survivors to the cost of the church and ultimately to

the cause of the truth. we have had all sorts of emotion to the ryan report. we express similar sentiments. we express emotions to it. the most shockg thing is that we are here at all. cline isn't something that happened 50 or 60 years ago in a different time. cline covers -- this report covers how abuse allegations were handled from 1996 to 2009. and the report is very explicit and says that the greatest failure by the diocese of cline was the failure to report all complaints. between 1996 and 2009, there were 15 complaints which were very clearly should have had a report from the diocese. this was only 15 years ago. this report covers the post

firms report. the same report found the bishop at that time placed the interest of individual priests ahead of those in the community. and yet, we now know that this practice continued and the murphy report is showing us it was the practice in the dioce for a 30-year period. as fitzgerald said last week, we cannot say with certainly that the same is not flew every other diocese in the country. we need that certainty. victims and survivors need that certainty to get the peace they deserve. this country at this stage needs a certainly in order for to move on. and the vast majority of priests were memrs of the church. we must ensure that the 24 church diocese is published in september. the church will get its act

together and finalize its orders and shortly at this stage given the amount of time, it's not too much to ask that that ought to be published by the owned of this year. publication will allow us for the first time to see the real scale of the abuse situation throughout the country. and it's only then that we'll be able to begin the process of moving on. the manner in which it continued is truly appalling. the response to the vatican to the framework document can oy be described as unsupport especially to reporting to authority. and for report again, those were not interested earlier in the protection of children. this response from the vatican was more interested in the

protection of friends and colleagues at the expense of children, an approach endorsed by the vatican. we are exactly one week since publication of this report and the vatican is still to issue a formal response. the only response given is by a spokesman this morning said there's nothing given to encourage bishops to break irish laws. he said that the vatican's advice our child and protection policies could not be interpreted as an invitation to cover up abuse. let's remind what the congregation told the bishop to their framework. they said that the framework was not an official document but merely a storied document. it contained procedures and

dispositions that could invalidate it to put a stop. these are the most damning lines. if these procedures were to be followed, the results cod be highly embarrassing and detrimental by those in authority. but what about the children that were affected by this? there's no indication of any concern of the vatican. while the vatican might not have encouraged bishops to break the law, they certainly encouraged them to put the reputation of the church before the protection of its children. they're more worried about the damage of embarrassment and the damage of abuse. how many other diocese did they interfere with in the manner. we need to ascertain this. it may be to look to do this in their orders because we really can't believe that any other order is coming unles it's the

truth. the response will come before us at th committees. i propose that consideration be considered to establishing a joint committee in order to deal with this -- on a both committee basis. i welcome the indication that we with held information in crimes against children in september. maybe minutes were given from the discussion that developed around this particular bill in the last few days. we might use august for some element of consultation around it. so the people may have a chance to put forward their views maybe to the joseph committee in a matter that is strictly adheres to the legislation. i did see a commitment that we might have a legislation by the end of this month. if we did it would be possible for a consultation.

i want to acknowledge the efforts you made in addressing the backlog in this since your appointment. but the work that you're doing addressing the backlog enlighting us with this bill then unfortunately, our ambition will amount to nothing unless we deal with the resource issues there. we cannot again gather under another report to express or disclose or ex-press or anger. we have to put building blocks to ensure that this legislator accepts the challenge that our bishop martin has given the church when he said the church can never rest until the last victim has found peace. i put forward to you that we cannot rest either until we've done our best to give victim what is theirs. >> thank you, deputy.

>> you have 15 minutes. from the outset i wish to state that why we support the motion, we would have preferred to see the stronger language in the previous report. it contributed to the undermining of the frameworks of irish state and of the irish bishop. they expressed condemnation and we express condemnation of the scandalous intervention. the events that took place are documented in the report missed a considerable amount of time but it did not take place 100 years ago. there was still abuse going on when preparations for the commencement of the deliberations of the committee the constitution amendment on children were underway. it comes right up to a couple of years ago. what we see here is a 400-page document that shows that 17

years after the brendan smith debale brought the government in 1994. the official church when the state failed to make mandatory requirement in place earlier. bishop mcgee held canon law superior to the civil law of the land and that disposition directly led to the abuse of more children to not adhering to correct procedures an more children were placed at risk. how many more children have to be harmed before we take action on this neglect. the catholic church still controls many of our schools. as stated this report investigated incidents which onlyook place a short number of years ago. i shiver to think, minister, of the real facts and the full story.

with more reports and inquiry into the lack of adherence will be commissioned. they refused to answer questions from the commission of inquiry and claimed diplomatic immunity. this is the same pope who issued vatican instructions to the bishops in this country. i wod expect if a school system operated in a third party state within ireland consistently failed to report allegations of child sexual abuse against its students by teachers and employees, the ambassador of that state would be required to answer questions and if he or she failed to do so, they would be askedo leave. the church is not above the law. it is high time they stopped thinking that they were. father lombardy said his remarks had been made in a personal capity but this is the sort of disingenuous double speak that must end.

bishop mcgee has no interest in protecting the children of cork and pawned that authority off to someone else who had no interest. he act ily, knowingly lied. he concealed information aut the crime committed by the priests within his diocese. he actively engaged in a reckless and at times willful endangerment of children. there are prosecutions to be face bid those who perpetrated crim against children either through directly abusing them or being complicit in the coverup of their abuse and nothing less, i fair, will bring to an end this lurid regime. 2/3's of complaints made between 1996 and 2008 were not report to the guardian and nothing was passed. while members of this hse including the current ministers

for children an justice were sitting in a room deliberating on the rights of children, bishop mcgee was not reporting allegations of abuse. they may have apologized for this report but that's not good enough the official church has disgraced itself in the handling of this most serious of issues. it is disgusting and itoes right to the top. the wish shps, along with the vatican, played a major role in aggravating the level of abuse of children in ireland. the report is measured in its tone and found that the vatican's reaction to the 1996 framework document was entirely within council. it gave any bishop the freedom to ignore it. we need cast iron guarantees from the church that they'll adhere to the civil law when it comes to reporting abuse, and will do so as of now with immediate effect. they have a moral only fwation

to do so. however, moral obligations on members of the clergy have not work sod well in the past so we also need cast iron guarantees from the state that if there are more flagrant breeches -- breaches of the law which we have seen on many occasions in the past, they must be held to account. for the vatican to state that the framework document was merely a study document, rather than an official document, was mething to shortt of an insult to the survivors and victims of abuse. they stated th had serious reservations about moral -- of a moral and canon call nature of the document. it's up to the vatican to state exactly what they meant by having moral reservations regard regular porting jail gigses of abuse or the actual knowledge of theact that in some cases, clericsere indeed childolesters. the vatican refused to explain to the commission in 2005, when the guidelines had been

updated, why they were not recognized officially by the church. monsignor o'callaghan actively on stralkted the employment of those guidelines. it is this complete and unreserved disregard that some senior voicesn the church have for child protection in this case that is so hard to stomach. there have now been three statutory inquiry into abuse in church diocese in ireland where child protection procedures have been found wanting and again, i ask the question, will there be more. only in 2009 the cardinal was saying bishop gee was, in his words, dependable and reliable and didn't need to resign. this is a man who had been found by the church's own national board for safeguarding children to be presiding over practices that were inadequate and dangerous. that's a scandal in itself. many people said we can learn from all of these reports. it is hard to see how so many

reports highlighting similar failures can all have different lessons to take away. however in looking at the lessons that we can learn from the report, i wonder what the min -- whether the minister would agree whether there are things we can teach others. last december, the executive in the six candidates announced setting up in the north. they reported to the executive a fortnight ago and a decision would be made about how to address crimes committed by the instution, both those run by the catholic church and state run stewsings in the -- institutions in the autumn. the minister will be aware that a numb of catholic church diocese across ireland stretch across the border. in looking at possible future inquiries into the diocese, it will be useful to coordinate with the initialtive uer way in the six downies and might be

of benefit to get the benefit of our experienc down here both among victim groups and wider civil society of how the inquiry into abuse in the 26 counties have been handled. i know a number of such meetings have already taken place but i wonder would it benefit from a more structured, formal approachnd i ask the gentleman to consider this. if the vatican is showing contempt and disregard for the abuse investigations we have put in place, it is only in keeping with the articles with which it approaches the mechanism for the protection of international human rights. the vatican was due to submit its second report on the rights of the child in 1997 and i would ask the goth to resource these bodies accordingly. they must be absolutely capable ofarrying out out -- out the responsibilities, they must be effective.

procedures as we have seen ad nausea are of no use uess they are properly implemented and minister, i wish you and the minister for children well in ensuring that these measures are indeed in place at the earliest opportunity. >> the next number of speakers, there are five speakers, each with three minutes. john hall han please. >> i'm sharing time with deputies murphy, sullivan, wallace. i'll be very brief. like everybody else i was horrified about this particular report. that the abuse went unreported is utterly reprehensible. i will now call on the government to break off diplomatic relations with those

who shield hill. i believe the papal nunzio should be sent from iland, the office stripped of its title, the teen of diplomatic corps, while the ambassador should be removed from the vatican. if any other foreign government conspired to break the law here, their ambassadors would be expelled. at happened here is that the vatin, a soveign state, has refused to cooperate with the investigation into the criminal conspiracy against children in this country. they instruct us, our citizens, their priests and their bishops, not to comply with our law and to break our law. we will not tolerate this from any other government or any other state. ireland has a legitimate claim that the vatican state has breached the league of principle of ninterference in

the internal affairs of the sovereign state. they are party to various conventions. one of the conventions includes th vienna convention of diplomatic relations, 1961, which requires that without prejudice to have privileges and immunities. it is the duty of the person enjoying such privileges and immunities to respect the laws of the receiving state and they have a duty not to interfere with the intefrpbl affairs of the state. -- with the internal affair hofse state. the holy see has conducted itself that belies any relationship between themselves and the irish state. the government strengthened rules to make sure their fiscal laws comply with e.u.

surely the violation of children and sheltering of abuse perpetrators shouldake precedence over suspicious financial transactions. i would urge the minister of foreign affairs to use every challenge available to challenge the failure of the vatican state to report on its compliance under u.n. convention of the children's rights since 1997 and under the united convention against torture, 2003. i dw the minister's attention to article 6 and 19 convention rights of the child and the failure of the holy see to ensure in its own report and its own past in conjunction with the irish short that all cases of sexual abuse are reported. further more, a clear statement -- i'm just finishing. a clear statement at the privacy of the convention over canon law is required and i would urge the government to

set a time frame from the vatican without delay and bring the response back to us. >> three minutes. i'll let you know at one minu. >> ok. i felt really angry after reading the report because it shows the closure has not -- the cloture has not changed for many people ithe catholic church in ireland. it takes great courage to come forward and i applaud those who did. the years of not being believed and being treated as though they were in a confessional was totally wrong. the law was sub vered in favor of the vatican. we have outsourced tngs to the roman catholic church. it was an institution placed in a privileged place. even after the revelations, there are people within the church, even after all the reti